Practical Implementation Of Inclusion For All: With Dr. Liz Wilson [Podcast]

It’s hard to keep up with the evolving understanding and practice of inclusion. I sometimes feel overwhelmed trying to keep up. So many labels, so many categories.

If you can relate, this conversation is for you! Just a few minutes into my first conversation with Dr. Liz Wilson I knew something was different and special about who she is and how she sees things. She has developed a powerful new framework that seeks to shift the focus of inclusion from a list of identities, to addressing the needs of all people. I’m delighted to share that with you.

Enjoy the video, audio, and transcript. If you like what you hear on The Compassionate Accountability Podcast, will you please like, share, and review on your favorite platform?

What’s In This Episode

• Formative moments leading Liz to her passion for inclusion.
• There are over 54 different identities. How do we make sense of it all?
• What’s wrong with current approaches to inclusion?
• Dr. Liz’s Framework for Inclusion: The 8 Inclusion Needs.
• What is unique about Liz’s approach to inclusion?
• The intersection between Compassionate Accountability and inclusion
• Liz’s experience teaching her framework to organizations
• What is the biggest barrier to inclusion for most people?
• What is the difference between knowing and caring?
• A sneak peak into IncludeChat, Dr. Liz’s AI-informed inclusion app

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Listen To The Audio

Read The Transcript

Nate Regier: Hello, I’m Nate Regier, Founder and CEO of Next Element, a global consulting and training firm helping organizations transform their cultures with Compassionate Accountability®. Thanks for joining me on the Compassionate Accountability Podcast, where we get to meet amazing people who are bringing more compassion to the world. I hope you’ll find something useful in this episode. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate, and review to help us reach more listeners. Be sure to visit our website at next-element.com, where you can learn more about our work and check out all of our previous episodes.

It’s hard to keep up with the evolving understanding and practice of inclusion. I sometimes feel overwhelmed trying to keep up. So many labels, so many categories, intersectionality. If you can relate, this conversation is for you. My guest on this episode has developed a powerful new framework that seeks to shift the focus of inclusion from a list of categories and identities to addressing the needs of all people.

Dr. Liz Wilson is a behavioral scientist, organizational transformation expert and founder of Include Inc. Originally from Australia and now based in the United States, Dr. Liz is well known for her authentic, honest, and pragmatic approach to everything she does. This includes her simple, powerful, Include Change method that has achieved amazing results for her clients over the span of her 25 plus year career. Dr. Liz has transformed the ways of working and cultures of dozens of global organizations, including major airlines, banks, consumer goods, telecommunications, mining, rail tech, and med tech companies. Just a few minutes into my first conversation with Dr. Liz, I knew something was different and special about who she is and how she sees things. I’m delighted to share that with you today. Dr. Liz, welcome to the Compassionate Accountability Podcast.

Liz Wilson: Thanks for having me, Nate.

Nate Regier: I am so glad to have you here for this conversation. And before we dive in, will you share a little bit about your journey? I would love to know a little bit about what are some of the formative moments along the way that got you to where you are?

Liz Wilson: How long is your podcast episode, Nate? Pivotal moments in my life. Well, in the vein of compassion, I think we can lean into that one, I think. The moments that I think have really evolved and enhanced my ability to be compassionate of all others probably stems back, it is an inherent value of mine, I should say that. If you ask someone describe Liz, often compassion comes up in the top five. But interestingly, and why it really, really, really resonated with me when I heard you talking about Compassionate Accountability is that I also find myself highly accountable for everything that I do. And to a fault. I blame myself a lot of the times. But in terms of leaning into compassion, there are two really big ones that stand out for me. One is my second husband, I am onto my third. He’s the best, but my second husband was profoundly deaf. And when you start to really understand the world through the experience of someone else that has really experienced a different life to you because of the discrimination, the barriers in place, you can either obviously open your eyes, which fortunately I did, or you can ignore it, right? But that was probably my segue into focusing my capabilities on creating inclusion for all people.

If I think about a sliding doors moments in my life, directionally, that was a huge one. And then just the second one, and I say just, probably not the best segue, Nate, was my son was an addict for three years. And that in itself is a lived experience I wish on no one. But you also have to do the work on yourself at the same time while they’re doing the work on themselves. And then we lost him to suicide. His name is Dominique and we lost him to suicide at 21 in January last year. As you can imagine then the ongoing grief recovery and all of that comes with that also fuels who I am today.

Nate Regier: Thank you for sharing that. And it does set the stage for your interest in inclusion being not just academic, it’s personal. You’ve been close to people who are different in some way, maybe marginalized in some way. You help organizations that deal with that. You’re a cross-culture person.

Liz Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Nate Regier: Originally from Australia, right? Live in the US now. And since the topic is inclusion today and how that intersects with Compassionate Accountability, I’ll be fully transparent too. I struggle to keep up with this involving understanding and practice of inclusion. And sometimes I get skeptical about where things are going. Sometimes in our quest to include everything and everybody, we’ve created even more categories, and sadly it seems like even more division. There’s something missing for me, something not quite right. I’m curious how you see it.

Liz Wilson: Well, I’m glad you asked, Nate. Perhaps not on exactly the same page because I have hope because I can see a different way of doing things. Absolutely, if we think about social change and over time we’re trying to get to a better outcome, the people that have been most excluded and faced the most barriers have taken on the challenge of removing those barriers. But then what comes with that is their lived experience and their frustration, and in some cases their anger. And it ends up being more of a push and a guilt blaming thing. And in any behavioral change, if I was to tell you everything that you’ve done until now has been wrong and shame you for that, you’re highly unlikely to be open to doing something different, okay. That’s just the science of our brains. We do have to encourage people to be inclusive in different ways.

But then on the other hand, when you’re also talking about all of this, so many different identities, and here’s what I want to say. Yes, I’m up to 54 and counting, okay? If we were to rattle off and I said to you, hey, Nate, what are the identities you think of when we start to talk about the conversation of DE&I? And there’s often race and gender and LGBTQI, but there’s so many more. There’s all the neurodiversities and the disabilities and veteran and religion and career responsibilities and age, and there is 54.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: If I was to try to keep telling people, you need to include this person and this person and this person and this person, and then all the imaginable intersectionalities of that, I’m going to paralyze people. There’s a better way, Nate.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: There’s a better way.

Nate Regier: Well, thank you. Thank you for the way you worded it. Really captures the angst that I feel.

Liz Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Nate Regier: And your life’s work is dedicated to this. You’ve come up with a novel framework that I would consider a breakthrough model of inclusion that accomplishes what we call transcend and include. Transcend and include, and it includes compassion and accountability, and you call it your Eight Inclusion Needs model. Will you take us through this? Tell us a little bit about it.

Liz Wilson: I would love to. I’ll take you through eight years of research in 30 seconds or as best as I can.

Nate Regier: That’s the beautiful challenge of a podcast, right?

Liz Wilson: Yeah, it certainly is. Like I’ve already told you, there are all these barriers to us being inclusive. And this is the academic part of me, is that really there needed to be a way to look at the whole person for inclusion. But also from the practical side of me as a behavioral transformation expert in organizations, is I needed to find a way for a what’s in it for me as well, because how we affect change when it matters to us too. I went through all the research and you would barely believe it, but since the 1980s, Kimberley Crenshaw coined the term intersectionality. And that was to describe the compounding effect of various identities in that case, particularly for Black African-American women in the United States in contrast to their white female peers and their male Black peers. And showing that there was the compounding effect. But 40 years later, and there had still not been a way to operationalize intersectionality in addressing discrimination in the workplace. I took on that and identified through all the research, all the barriers that had been identified for all the different identities and intersectionalities and broke them down and really worked out there’s only eight.

And that means there’s eight inclusion needs that we need to include all people. If I can provide you a framework, Nate, and everyone else a framework, instead of having to think about the 54 and the paralysis that comes with not knowing, and now knowing that there’s just eight needs you need to think about in any decision that you’re making, then I’m making it simple for you. Let me do a quick run through.

Nate Regier: Yes, yes.

Liz Wilson: Okay.

Nate Regier: And I’ll definitely put a link in the show notes so people can go learn more, but give us a quick run through.

Liz Wilson: All right. On that with the show notes, that paper, the academic papers are open access because that wouldn’t be inclusive if it wasn’t.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: If you want some nighttime insomnia reading, you can read it. There are eight of them. It starts with access and what you would normally think of as vision, hearing, physical access, but it’s more than that. It does include that, but it also includes access to resources, access to things like health, justice, all that stuff as well. All right. It’s all encompassing. Space is the next one, and that’s about the physical environment and is it physically safe for me or psychologically safe for me? And two really good examples. On a manufacturing floor, you would make sure that you’ve got pathways lined out where it’s safe to walk. Similarly, is it psychologically safe? Aside from the obvious when we talk about psychological safety with the other humans in the room, there are things about a physical environment that cannot feel safe emotionally as well. Things like you wouldn’t have an event on a plantation because that is not psychologically safe for a whole lot of identities.

The next one is opportunity. Pretty simple. If you’d never been given an opportunity, Nate, you’d never be where you are today. And the point is, we need to be able to make sure everyone gets opportunities to fulfill their potential. Representation is number four. Yes, representation in terms of numbers in the room, but it’s also representation of diversity. It has to be representative of the community that you work in and live in, but also once they’re in the room, representation of voice, are they being remunerated accordingly and all that kind of stuff that goes with that. The next one is allowance. That is all of the accommodations we make, but I like to take the word of accommodation away and use allowance instead because the term has got caught up in reasonable accommodation. As soon as I read that, I’m like, ugh. It’s like if we can be bothered, we’ll give it to you. The point is we’ve moved past that. It’s not the 1990s anymore. We are in a place where we want our people to thrive. If you need something, Nate, to thrive at work, then I should give it to you so you can thrive. The thing, well, if I give it to Mary, I’m going to have to give it to Frank. Well, if Frank needs it, give it to him.

Allowances is anything from a stand-up desk to being able to work from home, to wait for the plumber to turn up for the day. Which one’s next? Language. Language is quite clearly, whether it’s making sure we don’t use acronyms in the workplace that exclude people or that we’re giving translations, transcriptions, all the things that come with language. And of course not using discriminatory, ableist or anything else language. I think we’ve got two more. I haven’t been counting them.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: Respect, okay. No doubt, none of us can thrive unless we’re respected. But this has a special nuance to it. It’s about recognizing that many identities come with a legacy or a history to them, and also about the impact of current events that may be going on. For instance, if something happened over the weekend, let’s say go back to the George Floyd murder, what happens when you go in on Monday for certain identities? How are we respecting that in our spaces?

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And then finally, I think we’re up to eight unless I’ve missed one, is support.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And support is, think of it like the stepladder, right? The tall kitchen cabinets, it’s not expected that I just shouldn’t be able to use them. It shouldn’t be bad luck, you’re not tall enough. I get the stepladder and I’ll either use the first step or the second step, whatever it is that I need to reach the top shelf. And that is support, whatever we need to provide people to give them the step-up so that they can have equitable outcomes.

Nate Regier: Thank you. That was incredible in such a short period of time. And also giving some real practical examples of what those are. I can see immediately that 54 becomes eight.

Liz Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Nate Regier: What might be one or two ways in which this framework picks up where others leave off? Where does it take us that we couldn’t go before?

Liz Wilson: Again, back into my research bits. When I started all of this, I mean, I was not an expert in inclusion. Let me be very clear. I am more about how do I equip people to do things differently in organizations for a better outcome? That’s my jam.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: When I realized that we were still 208 years away from gender pay equity, I’m like, hang on. As a management consultant, I know how I would fix pay inequity in an organization. It would not take me 208 years. That’s when I dived into how are we doing inclusion at the moment?

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And in fact, we weren’t. And I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings because I am so grateful for the people and the practitioners that came before me for all their efforts and all the headway they’ve made. But truly the focus has really just been on diversity.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And when we focus on the diversity bit, mostly we’re educating people on how to understand other people instead of how do we make better decisions, remove barriers, and create an inclusive environment so once the diversity gets in, the room can thrive.

Nate Regier: All right. I want to stop you right there because it’s something really important, if you don’t mind. May I?

Liz Wilson: You may, yes.

Nate Regier: I really wanted to latch onto that what you said about we have not been doing inclusion, we’ve been understanding diversity. And for me that’s really where the nexus of Compassion Accountability comes in. And you talk about different kinds of empathy later that I want to get into. But will you dive a little deeper into the difference between simply understanding and maybe even appreciating differences and actually doing inclusion?

Liz Wilson: Brilliant. Thank you for interjecting because I think that is really important to highlight. The DE&I, or they’ve put the B on it as well, that acronym has almost formed itself as its own word. And in doing so, has lost the meaning in the action, which is where we’re going to get to the empathy a little later. I think you’re inferring me, but if we think about the change curve, we do need to start with understanding. An awareness and an understanding about others, about the world around us, even about ourselves. And so even if you look at the EQ model around self-awareness, but here’s the thing, when we’re just learning about people that are different to us, we’re focusing on the differences rather than focusing on A, what brings us together, but also B, what is it that I can take accountability for and how am I going to do things differently to include people? Diversity is just the differences, right? That is the variances of differences, all right. And then we’ve got belonging, which is that sense of feeling like I belong.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: Equity is really about the achievement of equal outcomes for all people. What’s in place so that we can do that? But inclusion is the how. It is the what we do, the what we say, the processes we put in place, the behaviors that we demonstrate. And so when we’re talking about compassion and accountability, it absolutely falls in under inclusion, the behaviors that we demonstrate.

Nate Regier: Love that. Thank you. You’re not just research informed, you’re also very practical about implementation. You bring this to companies, you work with companies of all sizes. And so what has been your experience introducing this way of doing inclusion?

Liz Wilson: Don’t tell all the academic researchers out there, but I was doing my academic research concurrently with applying it in practice because I am so practical that when I even submitted my first paper, it got rejected because it was too practical. Oops. But here’s this thing, particularly when I started implementing it in Australia, there was one particular identity I was concerned about it not resonating with, and that was with our indigenous population. They have a combined experience that is not dissimilar to the US Black or African American identity because they are our racial difference in terms of color as well. But also they have the experience of, well, your indigenous population of genocide, but also slavery and so on and so forth, right? I was concerned, but in fact by the time we get to the end of it, I had them like, oh my God, this is the way forward.

This is a really practical way for us to now affect change. Then I started to implement it across Asia. And here’s where the magic happens is because when you are thinking about, I draw a line. Every time I say Asia because it’s that line of the part of the world that is so diverse. If you think about everyone up from Japan, through Asia and China, and then you’ll encapsulate all of the islands in between, whether it’s Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia right down into Australia and New Zealand, think about this. There are some countries in that region where it’s even illegal to be gay.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: If you are a global organization with locations or offices in those locations, and you want to implement an inclusive way of working, you need to navigate those, not just the social norms, but the legal norms as well. And when we focus on creating the fulfillment of the eight inclusion needs, we get to navigate that by still including them in our organizational culture. It really then started to resonate with even more organizations and cultures and geographies. And then I do dare say, coming into the US, I was again nervous because I know what I look like in this country. I’m not perceived like that in other parts of the world, but I know coming into the US, I look like a middle-aged white female that’s probably coming in telling you to suck eggs or I know that you guys use a term white savior complex, all of that stuff. And so I was really cognizant of that. But you know what? My colleagues that have really got behind me and supporting me more often than not have been Black and/or African-American females in the US, they’ve been my greatest advocates. And I have been implementing this across global organizations, whether it’s fast moving consumer goods, insurance, pharmaceuticals, banking, tech, you name it, it’s working.

Nate Regier: It seems like a pretty broadly resonating message. And this notion of transcend and include seems really important. Where do you see people struggling the most with this?

Liz Wilson: Okay. One of the things that can be tricky, whether it’s with the organizational culturally or if it’s with individuals, because it works the same way. When you’re really wedded to the way you’re currently doing inclusion, when you really, really believe it’s just about race and LGBTQI and gender programs, that’s where I have the most pushback.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: Those programs are important, but they’re only an aspect of the whole change program because if you remember me listing through those eight, one of them was support and opportunity, right? It falls into those two. There is a whole of other things that we need to do. And really if you look at it, Nate, let’s use me as an example, right? I have ADD. There’s one of my identities, mental health, which is medicated daily and has been for best part of 15 years. And then we’ve got my gender.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: If you had a gender program, it’s not looking at all parts of me, it’s only focused on the gender part.

Nate Regier: Right.

Liz Wilson: And that’s where we trip up is not looking at addressing the needs of all people. That’s my barriers when they’re really holding on to the identities.

Nate Regier: And it seems that when the division really happens around these things, people get very all or nothing, very divisive, very like this is the only one category that matters or this is the only identity. We can’t really see it a different way. I appreciate you inviting us to open up. When I met you and we talked, it was really interesting because you shared with me your personal story with Dominique, and I was at the same time trying to figure out how to deal with a friend of mine who had lost a child in a similar situation. And it was a really moment of connection. And I know a mantra for you is create psychological safety through your own transparency. And this is a really powerful invitation, one that you live by.

Liz Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Nate Regier: I got to experience it firsthand when we met, even though you didn’t really even know me. This can be a massive challenge for so many people. What do you have to say about that? What hope can you offer, encouragement?

Liz Wilson: I won’t name him. I was just thinking I was going to give a story, but I won’t name him just to respect him, but a CFO of one of my clients and I have been running this inclusion program for his organization and had been doing so prior to the loss of Dom and after, and they really looked after me and cared.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And we were running all employees through the program, and I think he was dragging his feet in attending. And he turned up arms crossed and really not sure that he wanted to spend the whole day with me and 20 other employees. And I am really transparent, you get to know me in a workshop so you know that I see you because I’ve let you see me. And whether it’s you calling it authentic leadership or positive leadership or compassionate leadership, servant leadership, Compassionate Accountability, I think you need to be transparent and vulnerable to create safety for others. And by the end of the workshop, he had his arms uncrossed, and as everyone left the room, he said, I get it now. I get why people have been thanking me for months for sending them on this training. I never understood why someone would thank me for this.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: He goes, but I get it. And that’s all. And then by the time I got to the airport, I’d received a long email. I’m talking pages long, and he started sharing about his wife with stage four cancer and things going on with his kids. And he goes, I get it now that I need to be more open and share this with my team.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And that comes through learning and talking about inclusion.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: Look, I know no other way. I do get people commenting on my stuff on LinkedIn just saying, oh my gosh, you’re so brave sharing. And I’m like, oh, I don’t know if it’s bravery. Maybe. I don’t know another way, but that’s how I connect with others.

Nate Regier: I really appreciate that story, because I think people often misunderstand vulnerability as weakness. And that’s where they say, oh, you’re so brave. Like you’re walking into the lion’s den or something. Or you’re going to get hurt for it, or someone’s going to take advantage. And openness is what we call it in our framework. What’s huge is that transparency and vulnerability is not about being weak. It’s about being real and being human and making the first step to create a safe place. And so it’s hard, I get that. And thank you for being a model for that. That segues into this notion of empathy. And I know that you’re big on this and we are too. Just right now, I’m actually working on an article. I want to write about different kinds of empathy and what they are and what they aren’t.

Liz Wilson: Mm-hmm.

Nate Regier: But you talk about the difference between desire for knowledge, like understanding versus to care about another’s pain. Will you unpack that for me, for us?

Liz Wilson: That is a bit of a Pandora’s box to unpack. Let’s go back to inclusion so I can ground it in some examples. Let’s say with my second husband, I could have just seen the discrimination that he encountered and felt bad for him. Okay. That’s showing some self-awareness. Maybe I’d say you demonstrate a bit of self-management around that. But who am I if I’m not to affect that for the better? I need to take some accountability. I’ve seen something that’s not right. I need to take accountability for fixing it, and I can either fix it at a micro level with an individual that’s with me or at a macro level. And fortunately, I’d like to think that I had the capability to translate from helping organizations make more money essentially to then make them more inclusive, which also does make more money just in case anyone’s listening. But for me, true empathy for me is not just seeing it, not just feeling it, but doing something in support or an action that can benefit them or something greater.

Nate Regier: Caring about someone’s pain, it’s in the heart, it’s in the head in that you are working on solutions and it’s in the hands. You are doing something about it also. Not just understanding it. I was listening to a video of famous hostage negotiator, Chris Voss, talking about tactical empathy. And I thought, wait, tactical empathy, that sounds really heady and it sounds really easily easy to manipulate and really much like you wouldn’t have to care to do that. And my sense is that’s not what you’re talking about.

Liz Wilson: It’s not.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: That’s not to say that that capability is not valuable.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: Because let’s be clear, as a behavioral scientist, my goal is to help you get a better outcome through manipulating your actions.

Nate Regier: Right.

Liz Wilson: And we can use the word manipulation as a negative, but if it’s not used with negative intent, then it’s not negative, right? Look at the dictionary definition.

Nate Regier: Right. When we met, when you were telling me about your story, I do not have a frame of reference. I cannot feel what you felt, but you can teach me to understand, and I may have cognitive perspective taking, but that doesn’t mean that I feel it. It does mean though, that I could do something about it, I could learn, I could do things, but understanding and feeling aren’t necessarily the same thing.

Liz Wilson: You are giving me a light bulb moment, Nate. Okay. Here I was thinking that it’s like a jigsaw puzzle that you have to have all the pieces to be able to take the action, because that’s how I just described it. But the way you articulated it in our connection that we had in me sharing the death of Dom, was that you can hear the story and understand it and get a feeling for it, but not have to have really experienced it. But to be able to be capable to take action to help, you don’t need the middle part. You can actually just go, you know what? I understand. Now, help me understand what I can do to make it better for you. And we did that.

Nate Regier: We did.

Liz Wilson: Not for me though, so you could translate my learnings onto a friend of yours.

Nate Regier: By the way, I took action on some of your advice and I felt good about how it worked. I felt like I was there in the best way that I could be. Thank you for that.

Liz Wilson: You’re welcome.

Nate Regier: Well, we have to land this plane at some point because people that are listening are getting to that 30 minute mark on their treadmill, and they’re wondering what’s going to happen next.

Liz Wilson: I’m wondering what’s going to happen next.

Nate Regier: Me too. What I love about all my guests is there’s so many different things we could talk about, and I so appreciate you bringing all of you to what you do, to the work you do, to this conversation. You are an amazing, resilient, creative, strong, vulnerable person. And I’m curious, what’s on the horizon for you? What’s exciting? What’s percolating? What are you working on?

Liz Wilson: I’m actually going to connect these two things together, actually, the conversation that we’ve had up until now. I’m a feeler. If you do the Myers-Briggs thing or any of those profiles, I lead with my heart. I’m an idealist and I really care. That said, I think it’s because my mom was a thinker and leads with her head, but I have really been conditioned to make sure that what I do is practical. And so I can’t just feel something. I have to do something about those feelings.

Nate Regier: Yeah.

Liz Wilson: And so I’ve brought all of this together and for eight years I’ve been developing a database on how to be inclusive of all identities and intersectionalities across every function and operation of an organization, regardless of its industry. And I’m like, how do I get everybody capable to make inclusive decisions in everything they do? That seems like a huge task. And I’ve done it. Last year through my grief and through my recovery and growth, I taught myself AI and how to build enterprise SaaS technology. I’m not lying. I did it myself. And so includechat.com is now the world’s first most trusted, because it’s my data, inclusion chat where you ask in any language how to be inclusive in anything that you’re doing whenever you’re doing it.

Nate Regier: Wow.

Liz Wilson: And it’ll be me, or at least my data with AI backed behind it on how to be inclusive in that task. And it’s practical, Nate.

Nate Regier: Wow.

Liz Wilson: It tells you the steps to do.

Nate Regier: That was a big thing you dropped on us just now. What was that again? What’s it called?

Liz Wilson: It’s called Include Chat. Include Chat.

Nate Regier: Mm-hmm.

Liz Wilson: And I am officially post-revenue, Nate. It’s been eight years in the making. I am live, the first custom enterprise implementation has gone live, which is a huge milestone for anyone working in SaaS startup.

Nate Regier: That is.

Liz Wilson: Really my ultimate goal. It has equitable pricing, so even small companies can get it for the same price as large organizations because really at the end of the day, all I want is to create an inclusive world.

Nate Regier: What a beautiful, beautiful mission. And we’ll definitely put that information in the show notes as well.

Dr. Liz, thank you so much for who you are. Thanks for what you’re doing. Thanks for the way you show up in the world and the way you’re turning that into practical solutions that can make a difference.

Liz Wilson: Thank you so much, Nate.

Nate Regier: Thanks for joining me, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Compassionate Accountability Podcast. What struck you? What can you take and use today? I’d love to hear from you. And if you haven’t already, pick up a copy of my new book, Compassionate Accountability: How Leaders Build Connection and Get Results. If you’ve already read the book, I’d appreciate your review on Amazon. Contact us today to learn more about how Next Element helps companies transform their cultures with Compassionate Accountability. And remember, embracing both compassion and accountability is the secret to great leadership and the roadmap for thriving cultures and strong brands.